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Author Topic: Guidelines  (Read 12044 times)
ahazura
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« on: October 10, 2008, 03:38:31 AM »

Is it ok to post provocative poems on UD? For example, would saying my panties are w** in a poem be unsuitable for the board?
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Pater
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 06:16:09 AM »

Is it ok to post provocative poems on UD? For example, would saying my panties are w** in a poem be unsuitable for the board?


Not from you would it be distasteful (if, erm, you know what I mean), Miss Ah. I think everyone who likes your writing on here knows that with you it is all about passion, desire and sheer bottom-line love (and duty's in there too). And I for one would not be offended by any of the rawer ways in which you might express these things.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 03:02:13 PM »

There have been poems about sex and death and arses and such so I imagine you'll just fade in with all the other more risqué writings.
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The Bolshevik Dandy
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 11:07:23 AM »

Refrin' to me ther Miss Vicky?
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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 11:26:43 AM »

Well poetry - literature - should cover every aspect of the human condition - sex included. Penguin books had a court case over it with Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's lover. Without which there would be no Jackie Collins or Henry Miller today. Before this time to write explicitly about sex was by and large frowned upon.

Erica Jong ("Fear of Flying") simply gushed reams about her gushing. So why not. I suppose what you might want to ask is your motivation for doing so - to tease the voyeursitic rubberneckers who come on this site - to titillate - or is there a greater purpose for it ?

What concerns me is that if you do truly believe in what you're doing why do you need a concensus opinion from everyone else...to obviate yourself from any responsibility ...so you can then say "Well...you said I could..."   Very cowardly.

It's up to you.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 01:06:14 PM »

Refrin' to me ther Miss Vicky?

Do not ever call me Vicky. I warn thee now.

And no, I wasn't referring to anyone specific as the only writing on here I read is whatever Ploe has posted. I just know there are a lot of writers on here who write smutty stuff, whether good or bad, so it'll make no difference if she joins in or not too.
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Pater
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2008, 08:24:26 AM »

Well poetry - literature - should cover every aspect of the human condition - sex included. Penguin books had a court case over it with Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's lover. Without which there would be no Jackie Collins or Henry Miller today. Before this time to write explicitly about sex was by and large frowned upon.

Erica Jong ("Fear of Flying") simply gushed reams about her gushing. So why not. I suppose what you might want to ask is your motivation for doing so - to tease the voyeursitic rubberneckers who come on this site - to titillate - or is there a greater purpose for it ?

What concerns me is that if you do truly believe in what you're doing why do you need a concensus opinion from everyone else...to obviate yourself from any responsibility ...so you can then say "Well...you said I could..."   Very cowardly.

It's up to you.

I'm certain the lady in question did not have in mind the semi-accusations you beef about above, Mr G. I also believe her request for interpretation of guidelines from others was for two reasons only: being relatively new and no matter what content she'd posted before, she couldn't be sure of the parameters held by any individual, or any general cultural differences if she wrote something possibly controversial: secondly, it is likely from possessing an inherent sense of decency she asked in the first place.
In my view it has nothing to do with "cowardice", and you shouldn't make leaps from analysis of a person's inner motives without enough evidence to back it up. In fact, it is condescending and aloof to do this in the first place. Interpret material by all means but don't slay your own intelligent comments on the altar of what comes across as grandiosity.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2008, 09:16:42 PM »

In my head, Pater, you wear a professor's cap upon your noggin.
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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2008, 01:20:58 PM »

You're sounding somewhat grandiose and verbose yourself pater with the way you put all that across. I thought the points I raised were both salient and valid to the question forwarded fror all writers here and did not warrant such a negative lambast from yourself . Just as I was offering Ahazura my earnest views on the matter.

SEX (or matters appertaining thereby  - fluid emissions, orgasms (multiple or singular), erectile tissue, penetration, fetishism, arousal and other  sundry methods of foreplay or intercourse) present themself to every writer I propose in one of two categories:

1) The sensationalistic cheap thrill, the lure, the "prick tease" as per the works of Jackie Collins and other writers of lower literary merit - the modern day equivalent of the Penny Dreadful or those books in polythene bags you can buy on Blackpool pier, where the reader may gloat in gleeful relish like a peeping Tom at the private carnal  pursuits of the depraved, the salacious and the downright dirty. The Filthmongers.

2) The wider more meaningful use of applying narrative erotica to edify other aspects of character, plot, theme embracing upon spirituality and nature as per DH Lawrence or character interaction, class distinction and personality as in say "The Collector" by John Fowles or the works of Ian Mcewan. Fowles indeed did produce an interesting paper entitled "The Orgiastic Pleasure in John Fowle's work" this exempified his disgust at readers "fishing out the dirty bit" and enjoying it in its own right as a separate aspect to the body of the work without fully appreciating the wider reasons why it was included in the work. Then of course there's the delighful Miss Nin and her most poetic forays into pleasures of the flesh in "Delta of Venus". a work which is both salient and satisfactory.

Lawrence's Lady Chatterley comes to mind as a case in point...the notorious sex scene lasting a mere  6 pages within what is arguably one of his lesser, dare I say drier novels.
 
Certainly while clarification on the guidelines here are probably necessary for all, I think with that particular subject area in mind actually asking permission on the matter is (to my mind only) suspect. Perhaps Azahura was being slightly flippant in her approach here. There's plenty of sex in literature as I 'm sure Azahura already knows,  as we know both Chaucer and  Shakespeare himself certainly being no strangers to the subject and therefore the writer should not shy away from it. Publish and be damned as they say. Everybody likes a bit of sex. Even Mr. Goldberg.

I'm sure you're not really a coward Azahura my statement being a little laconic and tongue-in-cheek - I was only saying this to verify your initial reason for asking.All I will say, in my humble opinion, is if you truly believe the context is valid and worthy of your currently very high quality material - why not ?  I do think however you have to make the distinct choice bewteen erotic narrative of the "cheap thrill" kind or the more complex denser uses of sexuality in literature and its effect on human beings, scenarios and society as a whole. Not that you can't have both and not that you have to of course just because I say so. You write what you like. I'll be reading it.

I hope this clears the matter up without any undue offence and and I for one will be looking forward to your output.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 01:31:12 PM by Mr. Goldberg » Logged
Pater
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2008, 02:12:44 PM »

From: Mr G. "You're sounding somewhat grandiose and verbose yourself pater with the way you put all that across. I thought the points I raised were both salient and valid to the question forwarded fror all writers here and did not warrant such a negative lambast from yourself . Just as I was offering Ahazura my earnest views on the matter."


Nope, I wasn't being anything like, Mr G., I was just being fair-minded. It's fine awarding yourself salience and validity in comment before and after responses from others (me in this case) which fail to concur. You might well find it convenient to blame these others for not grasping a context/tone of remark by you that, for the majority I'd guess, patently isn't evident. So the fault for this surely lies with you.
Being didactic as you are in your full reply yet after the event, isn't fair-minded. Notwithstanding most on here, for whatever reasons, simply won't relate from experience to at least some of your literary references, nor should accept your interpretation of them - why should they?
And as is plain from these, congratulating anyone else of a prowess in grandiosity and verbosity is something you should avoid. Yours is a one-member club. Of Olympic standard.

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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2008, 02:36:47 PM »

You're entitled to your opinions Pater on me or my work here as is anyone else. Though I must concur I have never been awarded the title of Olympian before. Anyway what do you think about the rest of it ? Agree/Disagree ? That is not me being didactic by the way just an attempt to elicit from you your views on the application of erotic writing.
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Pater
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2008, 05:18:46 PM »

You're entitled to your opinions Pater on me or my work here as is anyone else. Though I must concur I have never been awarded the title of Olympian before. Anyway what do you think about the rest of it ? Agree/Disagree ? That is not me being didactic by the way just an attempt to elicit from you your views on the application of erotic writing.

Look, Mr G., I have nowt against you. My only grievance is being accused of something I'm not. I've no problem acknowledging your intelligence. And you've no need to forestall my accusing you again of being didactic - being so, if used correctly, can be a good thing.
As to my views on erotic writing and its justification against any reservations others might hold, and in context to your own stated opinions on it, I'll leave them till later. Though seeing as you asked, I promise I'll address the question sometime.
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Will
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2008, 07:38:32 PM »

What concerns me is that if you do truly believe in what you're doing why do you need a concensus opinion from everyone else...to obviate yourself from any responsibility ...so you can then say "Well...you said I could..."   Very cowardly.

Methinks you assume too much.  She just asked if it was appropriate or not.  And as far as I'm concerned, it's fine. 
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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2008, 11:43:33 AM »

Well you would.

Thank you Pater for those fair qualifying remarks and until our next meeting may we pass each other by puddles without fear of cloaking or fencemanship...                      (*flourish *)
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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2008, 01:10:09 PM »

Once and for all Azahura is NOT a coward. She can't be - writing poetry of this nature for public domain. It is if anything lion hearted.


Methinks you assume too much.  She just asked if it was appropriate or not.  And as far as I'm concerned, it's fine. 
[/quote]

Well young Will...is SEX "appropriate"  ?? Ha ha ! The BIG question. Given that we have sexual references as far back as The Bible which begat so many more later on through the Karma Sutra, Joy of Sex, The Rainbow and so on and so forth we can hardly say it is inappropriate; indeed surely literature has a duty to portray sexuality in all its forms alongside other aspects of the human condition.

What I am trying to impress upon Azahura and her readers is the treatment of the topic. And indeed treatment is all.   

To have a loosely connected series of  vulgarisms describing the act of sexual commune to be found in works such as Confessions of a Window Cleaner or even John Cleland's Fanny Hill can often be anything but enticing. YET to weave and plait the sensual pleasures into a tapestry of sustained testosterone truffle via careful choice of sensation adjectives dusted with yearning and release is no easy feat. With only a limited number of erotic terms at our disposal (200 I was once told) sequencing them in a manner which is seductive as it is original as it is surprising can be difficult. I 've written a fair bit of steamy stuff in my time - much from personal experience - the rest just wishful thinking and I can tell you and if you're not careful,  direct clinical reference to bodily parts and functions can make it look like a Biology Textbook.

Azahura may I suggest that you pepper your piece with plenty of metaphor and simile this should I think...alleviate some of your... anxieties on the matter as you explore your piece. Textures too . I like textures. And things which go all sticky and sudsy when lathered up. And tell me what the tummy's doing, the nape of the neck and other bits which put one at the mercy of your own body. Get some yoghurt or ice cream in there if you can. And marshmallows do it for me too. All mallow. And marshy. Just a thought.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 01:16:00 PM by Mr. Goldberg » Logged
ahazura
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 08:14:21 AM »

Is it ok to post provocative poems on UD? For example, would saying my panties are w** in a poem be unsuitable for the board?


Not from you would it be distasteful (if, erm, you know what I mean), Miss Ah. I think everyone who likes your writing on here knows that with you it is all about passion, desire and sheer bottom-line love (and duty's in there too). And I for one would not be offended by any of the rawer ways in which you might express these things.


Thank you Pater, I appreciate your comments immensely.
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ahazura
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 08:20:43 AM »

Mr. Goldberg, I simply will say to you that I am glad you came to your full senses and realized that I am in no way a coward and in no way is my writing a way to get a rise out of anyone. I was merely asking a question because I have had my poetry removed from a forum before because not everyone could handle some of the provocative commentary I used. I was asking out of politeness and respect of others.

I believe in myself and in my writings yet I do find myself able to express myself in whatever sense I like and choose and I may unintentionally offend others.  I am posting on a forum, its not like this is my own public page where I can just display whatever I want. And if I want to say my panties are wet from writhing around, I will or I can say I am super dry, whatever. The rest of it is just too long to carry on as I have a slight headache right now.
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Null
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2008, 02:20:57 PM »

Stories such as "A Dam Whore" by Simon Nemeth and Ploe's "Marcella, My Third Love" are sexual in nature, and a little more explicit than saying your "panties are wet."

You are fine to post any poetry or prose that has sexual imagery. Pornography is another issue though. Mostly for copyright reasons.
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Mr. Goldberg
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 02:22:24 PM »

And decency reasons I hope.
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Null
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2008, 02:24:45 PM »

Partly, Nathaniel, partly.
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the most painful but wonderful thing about literature is discovering someone else has managed to distill something better than you ever could.
ahazura
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« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2008, 04:19:02 AM »

Stories such as "A Dam Whore" by Simon Nemeth and Ploe's "Marcella, My Third Love" are sexual in nature, and a little more explicit than saying your "panties are wet."

You are fine to post any poetry or prose that has sexual imagery. Pornography is another issue though. Mostly for copyright reasons.



And now Null I am going to search for the above posts you mentioned Smiley
Thanks for the input, I am very mild, very mild indeed.
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simon nemeth
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2008, 02:51:49 PM »

Can I just say I'm happy that Azz brought this topic to your attention. Some of my stories are VERY explicit and I was unsure if I would get in trouble for posting them. Now I know that there is no problem with it , so thank you.

AZZ: It is true what Null said about my stuff being much more explict than yours so you have nothing to fear.
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