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Author Topic: "Art"?  (Read 20620 times)
samuel
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« on: May 14, 2008, 12:20:23 AM »

I study art and I can honestly say I hate almost every other artist I have 'studied' with in my relatively short period of time calling myself an art student. Everyone pussy foots around each others work terrified to upset or god forbid offer any criticism AT ALL.

When I show my work I want people to rip the filthy, writhing, scum-filled bowels out of it and force feed me using a tube and a fucking sledgehammer, I dont need 'yeah that looks ok' or 'I like the colours' I NEED the flaws! I NEED the shit kicking out of it! I NEED whoever the scumbag it is that dare open their mouth to vomit pure, acidic criticism all over my excuse for art so I can better myself and stop being a whiny little bitch that is scared 'not to fit in'

People are to scared to hear actual opinions in case it backfires and decimates their little bubble of paint and chalk spewing truth on their garbage canvases and shit scrawlings. The gap between pussy footing students and pretentious gallery running fucks is far too large, the art world needs a big fucking shake up to get rid of all the non-productive half-arsed shitsacks and stir up some actual GENUINE work and something worthwhile to study... I mean, great I can look at the ancients all day long, yeah they were awesome but what fucking use is it in the here and now? I NEED contemporary artists to push the boundaries of their artistic endurance! I cant learn anything new from a dead artist...

The greatest artistic movements in history were sparked by NEW ideas.. they didnt look back at fucking cave paintings and think 'shit, we should be doing what they did thirty thousand fucking years ago'

WHERE ARE THE REVOLUTIONARIES?
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 01:20:11 AM by samuel » Logged
Ploe
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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2008, 01:13:20 AM »

Sam mate, they're scared, scared you're going to rip the throats clean out of their jugulared visions. Scared that if they show distaste to someone, they'll show distaste back. They daren't stand up, hands on their dicks and say "Your work is shit, it looks like something my pet could draw, you're not inspired, you're not an artist, go home, please!". Most "artists" are wimps by nature, too scared to get a real job in the real world, too scared to live, so they sit ion their spaces sculpting, painting and wanking off hard into their bed sheets. If you need brimstone, bring it in yourself, otherwise there you'll never make any progress as artists. Plus it's never shameful to learn something off someone who is dead, sometimes they have it so right...
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Vix0r
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2008, 01:41:29 AM »

I completely disagree about not being able to learn of the old masters. You can learn everything, if you open your eyes a little wider!

In their time many masters were not important or as famous as they are now. they got their status for a reason. They had what it took, they learned and created and advanced their skills to such an extent that they live on in their work.

Look at brush strokes, colours, styles of the era, the mistakes they had, the things they could not do because of social boundaries.

People coming up with new ideas have done so from looking at these paintings and going one step beyond, seeing what would spark attention, what would be exceptional.

Do not diss the old masters. The majority of artists will NEVER have what it takes to become anything like such wonderful artists.

And yes, pussyfooting is the shit. I noticed I do it too, but around friends I don't know so well for fear of causing offence. I am sometimes not the most eloquent of people.

However as an art student myself, it's always wonderful and ego boosting to have praise bestowed upon me, but it would be appreciated to be shown the flaws and given advice. In a nice way.

I'm lucky to know some forthright people who tell me what they think, and it does help. A lot.
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samuel
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2008, 02:03:41 AM »

 I think you misunderstood what I said about the masters, they are gods in their own right and indeed we have learnt alot from them and we can not forget that we have become somewhat complacent in what we 'see' when we view their work as these guys were at the very forefront of their movements!

 My point is that we can't dwell in the past when there are still many social boundaries still to demolish! Race, sexism, ageism, corruption in politics, religion (though thats a golden oldy), money, drugs, poverty etc. It's no use becoming lazy and thinking that everything has already been covered by these amazing visionaries we still need that energetic push to create new picasso's and new leonardo's so that in one hundred years time they are still pushing the boundaries of creativity!

 I can see what you mean about the ego-boost of being appreciated, it's a wonderful high, but I can honestly say I only achieve that high when someone I actually 'respect' offers the praise. I need to feel that I have deserved the credit, as opposed to the average joe hurling his two cents. Art among youth is in a dire position, I feel that if people were more.. deserving of the praise then there would be a hell of a lot less mediocrity and far more quality...

Though I suppose mediocrity is a necessary evil in order to make the GREAT artists stand out from the purely average

(thanks for the response both of you)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 02:13:50 AM by samuel » Logged
Vix0r
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 02:32:56 AM »

I agree, these artists pushed their boundaries just as we should. If we so desire, that is. Art will always move forwards as society always changes and innovators will always seek to push it that bit further.

Right now though I am in dire need of a good tabletop easel. I want to become satisfactory at painting landscapes. There is a picture hung upstairs that once hung in the living room that I have admired from as far as I can remember. I love standing close and stepping back to see it all come together to create the amazing landscape that it shows. It's wonderful, and I have a strong desire to learn how to do something like that.

So I guess, whereas you are trying to move forwards, I am trying to go back. I can't see it as something bad though, as it's such a talent to be able to create beautiful things like that even if it's been done for centuries.

I think we both strongly agree on the being honest about flaws of work though. It's crucial to development and improvement. It also shows a person respects you enough to be honest.
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hopeless zygote
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 03:04:17 PM »

I think we are all here because we are angry with something and want to change to world for the better to some degree.  Anger is a very constructive emotion, but don't confuse politeness for banality.  Revolutionaries are everywhere fighting the good fight.  They may seem few and far between with our supreme tyrant more predominant than ever, but they are still out there.  As artists, I don't think we can demolish boundaries in social issues, but we can show their absurdity.  The racist and the artist will die, but the racism and the art will battle forever.  I'm not sure where I was going with that...something about the eternal war for our collective unconscious.       
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Will
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2008, 04:40:19 PM »

Quote
People are to scared to hear actual opinions in case it backfires and decimates their little bubble of paint and chalk spewing truth on their garbage canvases and shit scrawlings.

I agree and think I've been guilty of this myself.  Not wanting to sound cliche, but honesty is the best policy.  I find that I also enjoy it when I get actual criticism from someone who actually read my work and thought about it. 
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Vix0r
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2008, 07:49:53 PM »

Not all artists have to be revolutionaries, and not all of us are angry =p

There is a pride in being good at what you want to do whether other people see it or are shocked at it or even like it.

I adore art. I love to spread the paint with a good thick brush or smudge the charcoal with a wee smudgey stick! The creation is thrilling and it's a lovely feeling. I'm not an angry art student. =p
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Ploe
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2008, 01:03:03 AM »

There should be revolutionaries in art. Art is for the people, we are the people. My proles we shall rise up and take all art from the upper classes and make it ours. Too long has art been looked at through the veil of fine snobbery! Shoot the fuckers down! Yes?
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Vix0r
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2008, 01:29:35 AM »

Art is for the artist! Art is a way of expression, it should satisfy the artist and bugger everyone else.

I didn't ever say there shouldn't be revolutionaries as they are essential to development in all aspects of life, but I was saying not all artists should be so.

I don't want to be a revolutionary. Many others don't either. We want to produce work we are satisfied with and learn until our hearts explode.

You lot go be "revolutionaries". I'll stick to learning and creating what makes me happy.
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Ploe
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2008, 01:39:17 AM »

Then shouldn't every man be an artist? That way the plebs can't be elitist and think that only those with talent can commit themselves to art. If art is expression like you say, then shouldn't everybody be entitled to that? They might not want to, but for many it may be the therapeutic soul booster they need, and it just hasn't been presented to the masses. How Christ brought Spirituality to the poor and sinners, somebody needs to bring them their hunger for art!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 01:41:15 AM by Ploe » Logged
Will
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2008, 01:42:52 PM »

Quote
Then shouldn't every man be an artist?

Isn't every man an artist?
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Vix0r
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2008, 02:03:11 PM »

^ That.

Ah, Ploe. You misunderstand me again. Art is for the artist, but you seem to think that I'm seperating those who are already considered artists from everyone else. I mean that art is for the artist that created it, but anyone can be an artist. It's for them.
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samuel
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2008, 05:28:20 PM »

what is an artist?

to me an artist isnt someone who necessarily creates 'art' an artist is someone with an idea, and someone with the sufficient talent to express this idea through any means necessary.

the art world needs passion.. too many people without a purpose doing things for the sake of doing them.

I agree with ploe, kill the snotty nosed bastards and de-throne the pretentious fucks that tell us what art is! Art is for the people!

(why do I suddenly feel patriotic like I should be holding a hammer and sickle firmly in each hand with a stern jaw and piercing gaze of pride, surrounded by equally proud, half naked, glistening men covered in soot and ash from the burning capitalist buildings in the background?)
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Editor
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2008, 05:44:21 PM »

(why do I suddenly feel patriotic like I should be holding a hammer and sickle firmly in each hand with a stern jaw and piercing gaze of pride, surrounded by equally proud, half naked, glistening men covered in soot and ash from the burning capitalist buildings in the background?)

A shiny red apple for the first person that comes up with a UD poster in this style! Such a thing would be made available for our proletariat to download and post around their towns and factories...

Carpe diem,

Mike,
Editor,
Unquiet Desperation.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2008, 09:15:14 PM »

I like the snotty nosed pretentious bastards. Who would I have to laugh at if they were not there?

Besides, is it really important? They can't affect you if you don't let them. Ignore them.

Posting posters around is a bit pretentious in itself, no? "Look at us. We're a spiffy forum. Come join us because we're totally awesome. Yeah." Whatever happened to word of mouth?
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samuel
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2008, 09:37:16 PM »

I dont want to ignore them because I want change! Thats my point, if we just sit by and are ruled upon by these tossers with paint brushes up their arses then how far will this system of arrogance and preference go?

on a lighter note:



I tried drawing the naked guy thing but a) I was far too aroused b) never try and look for reference pics containing naked men... google is not your friend!

gave me a chuckle anyway
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Ploe
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2008, 01:47:06 AM »

Posting posters around is a bit pretentious in itself, no? "Look at us. We're a spiffy forum. Come join us because we're totally awesome. Yeah." Whatever happened to word of mouth?

You forget dear woman, Unquiet Desperation is first and foremost a magazine.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2008, 01:47:38 PM »

I didn't forget at all.

It just annoys me when I see posters and stickers plastered all over for some wee magazine or club or band or gig. They all look the same (shite) and you know what sort of people will have put it there.

No other effort is made to improve the whatever it is and mucking up the street with all the paper crap that disintegrates and looks scabby on a wall is thought a great idea.

I suppose I have not had very good experience with posters and the like and consider them a waste of space.
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Will
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 02:03:13 PM »

No other effort is made to improve the whatever it is and mucking up the street with all the paper crap that disintegrates and looks scabby on a wall is thought a great idea.

So if a band puts up a promo poster, you're saying they also don't practice to try and improve the show advertised by the poster?  I would have to disagree.

However, I do agree that in some places they are like litter and can look trashy.  I still enjoy looking at them though.  Maybe if they're tastefully placed.
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Vix0r
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2008, 02:36:57 PM »

If I don't like something I'm not going to flatter it or even attempt to be truthful.

The world is full of shitty little bands and magazines and gigs and clubs and so on, all trying to throw themselves in your face. I don't like it and I'm not going to pretend I do. I want my face free from such things so I can actively seek out what I want to enjoy.
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keysersose
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2008, 02:54:57 PM »

never try and look for reference pics containing naked men... google is not your friend!

Unless you're looking for pictures of naked men for less salubrious reasons, of course.

The world is full of shitty little bands and magazines and gigs and clubs and so on, all trying to throw themselves in your face. I don't like it and I'm not going to pretend I do.

This may be, but have you ever considered that it's time to stop standing at the side throwing stones and go and build something yourself? I happen to think that some of the time your aim is true - and have cackled evilly at some of your direct hits - but would like to see what you can do. These may be shitty bands and magazines and gigs and clubs, but at least they're having a go...

Oh, and before anyone states the obvious I'm aware of my lack of posting actual poetry or art on here. I aim to rectify that, and until I do I'm going to attempt to practice what I preach and temper my sarcasm. It's going to be soooooooo hard. Sad

Keyserrrrr.
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Will
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2008, 02:57:57 PM »

I want my face free from such things so I can actively seek out what I want to enjoy.

You shouldn't let eyesores keep you from actively seeking things you want to enjoy.  Maybe a trip out of the city might help.  It always helps me (even though my city is more of a gas station along an interstate).
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I think, therefore I'm lost.
Will
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Everything is Irrelative.


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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2008, 03:00:32 PM »

These may be shitty bands and magazines and gigs and clubs, but at least they're having a go...

You never know
'til you have a go
perhaps yes
perhaps no

at least when I'm vegetating on the couch I feel as though at some point I did something worthy of something
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GhostofKidneyStonesPassed
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2008, 03:31:13 PM »

When I show my work I want people to rip the filthy, writhing, scum-filled bowels out of it and force feed me using a tube and a fucking sledgehammer, I dont need 'yeah that looks ok' or 'I like the colours' I NEED the flaws! I NEED the shit kicking out of it! I NEED whoever the scumbag it is that dare open their mouth to vomit pure, acidic criticism all over my excuse for art so I can better myself and stop being a whiny little bitch that is scared 'not to fit in'

Maybe your art is so bad that to point out all the flaws would be more work than it is worth, so people just say "yeah that looks ok" so they can be done with you.   Grin

I'm just yankin' ya.  I feel your pain and completely agree.  But I also think if something is good, there's nothing wrong with saying it's good.  If I don't like something that someone has asked to be critiqued, I will be honest.  Sometimes I just don't have any suggestions or criticisms to offer. 
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