Unquiet Desperation
November 19, 2017, 07:39:57 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Sorry, you must be logged in to use the shoutbox!
News: Post in our Creative Philosophy board... if you can.
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Theory of Epistemology  (Read 10526 times)
WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 419


Degenerative Lucidity


« on: January 06, 2010, 04:50:42 PM »

This stemmed from a short-lived discussion in the shout-box.

QUOTE Editor: So... what do you want to know about knowing?

QUOTE Ploe: Knowledge exists if it can be applied to anything. That's as far as I'll go on this one.

Someone argued to me that they can know my name is on a birth certificate, but what is that other than ink on paper?

I'm guessing knowing is an abstract concept. But does that mean it isn't part of reality? Are our very thoughts part of reality, give our perception of reality, or an illusion? If it's a perception, how is it possible to pass on a perception?
Logged

Failed, again.
Keith
Marlon Brando
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 08:17:09 PM »

Knowledge is power!  Cool

Knowledge is a collection of facts, opinions, behaviors, and records of your life. I'm sure there's much more to that list, but it's a start. I don't think knowledge and reality should be tied to each other because knowledge is an intellectual property where as reality is a perception of the animate and inanimate objects and events that make up your world. The only thing knowledge and reality have in common, in my opinion, is that they both exist within and outside of the self. Then again, everything exists within the bounds of reality so I suppose you could tie them together, I'm just of the opinion that they shouldn't be.

A perception is just a fancy word for a view point, a view point is simply an opinion, and we pass opinions on every day with verbal or written means. As well, knowledge is passed on with historical documents, works of literature, and music.

Hmmm, I think I'll stop here for now before I dig myself into too much of a hole when the next person posts. Bash away, this needs to get exciting.
Logged

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein
Ploe
Guest
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 04:14:58 AM »

There is a huge body of knowledge that exists that is collectively called Science. Science is the study of reality.
Logged
Keith
Marlon Brando
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



WWW
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 07:56:05 AM »

Would you say then, that all knowledge is Science?

If yes, then would you say that Science exists inside or outside of reality? Assuming behavior is the science of adaptation and survival then can life exist within reality without Science? And, if not, then is reality without life "real"?

if no, please give a few examples and some classification for them. I can't think of anything outside of memories, but even that could be called the Science of one's life.

I can't sleep, so I'm up pretty late writing this, no telling if I'll think I'm an idiot for it tomorrow haha.
Logged

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein
Ploe
Guest
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 08:11:35 AM »

Vice versa. All science is knowledge. That's what the word science means.

To the rest of your psycho waffle - I'm out. Thinking on levels like that is unhealthy for my ego.
Logged
Keith
Marlon Brando
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 07:15:40 PM »

If all Science is knowledge then I'm still curious as to what knowledge isn't Science, but if you're out on the topic then maybe someone else can answer that.

Science comes from Scientia which is Latin for knowledge yes; however, the definition is fairly ambiguous. Basically saying "Science is any practice that produces a predictable outcome based on previous studies." With Science being defined as a set of instructions for doing something, I think behaviors could be called Science as well. My point for bringing that up is that Science is trial and error, and, in my opinion, produces and uses knowledge. That being said, I do not think that Science IS knowledge per say. Of course, feel free to condemn me and call me psycho once more lol.
Logged

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein
WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 419


Degenerative Lucidity


« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 08:36:26 PM »

Oh thanks Ploe. Your short-lived input was welcome.

I think a view-point is different to an opinion in that the opinion is a product of the view-point. I would class the view-point as a manifestation of influences from the out-side that have affected the original person.

Science is a study of our reality. And one could argue that knowledge is merely neural connections in our brain, and therefore are physical. What we attribute to be science is a concept we have created, but is nessescery for us to define knowledge. One could argue its an illusion we've created for ourselves, but surely for humans to be conscious it requires the existence of knowledge? Is there knowledge that isn't science? Even simple things that we know about eachother we can count as "social" science and remember, its humans that decide what to attribute to science and its definition.
Maybe science is both knowledge and a product of knowledge? Maybe knowledge is what made us conscious in the first place and we built on it from there?

You're doing well Keith, keep it up. You have every right to call ME an idiot for this stuff. Glad to finally have some new blood, the old stuff seems to have congealed somewhat.
Logged

Failed, again.
Will
Henry David Thoreau
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1281


Everything is Irrelative.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 08:49:29 PM »

Once this guy told me he knew the meaning of life, but I shot him in the mouth before he could deliver the goods.



  
Logged

I think, therefore I'm lost.
Keith
Marlon Brando
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 12:18:58 AM »

I think a view-point is different to an opinion in that the opinion is a product of the view-point. I would class the view-point as a manifestation of influences from the out-side that have affected the original person.

I can agree to that.

I think consciousness can be without knowledge. For example, an animal has instincts. It is still conscious but does not "know" why it does the things it does. On the subject of science being an illusion, well, it wouldn't be the first time man has made something up to cope with life. Take, for example, the full spectrum of religions out there; maybe one is true maybe none are true but the fact remains that no one can know for sure. Yet we humans cling to our beliefs because they justify life and offer a solution to the small problems we think we need to solve.

So maybe you're right, maybe science and knowledge are only illusions made by the human mind to cope with the thought that we may not have a reason for our existence at all. A good way to back that up is that the human mind suffers depression and sometimes ends in suicide in the absence of a reason to live.

As for knowledge being the only thing that made us conscious in the first place, I don't think so. I understand your view here, and I respect it, but I don't agree. At the same time, I have no explanation for why we're conscious. Ignorant I know, but hey what can you do? Sometimes I've just gotta go with that gut feeling.

You're doing well Keith, keep it up. You have every right to call ME an idiot for this stuff. Glad to finally have some new blood, the old stuff seems to have congealed somewhat.

Thanks, although I'm not really here trying to establish my rank or anything lol. I want to further my understanding of things, and to do that I have to discuss and learn. Aside from that, I'm all about respect so you wont catch me insulting anyone haha. Well, except myself but hey we're our own worst critics so what can you do. Anyway, keep it coming with the good topics and I'll keep posting.
Logged

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein
WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 419


Degenerative Lucidity


« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 12:19:47 PM »

First, in reply to that Einstein quote you have there, I would quote Dr. Samuel Johnson: "I refute it thus!" (kicking a wall).

Surely consciousness IS knowing why you do things? Being self-aware in that respect? Humans are different to animals, and I do not think they have consciousness because they do not have (at least the perception of) free will. And with your comments on religion there, you've come to the right place.I totally agree that religions are just for people to try and have something concrete in their lives because things can be so abstract in their reality, but I would say that doesn't rule out the existence of God. I'm a Muslim b way of life , not by religion, which is a big difference. I think beliefs are for people who want something to be true even if there isn't either any real evidence or some sort of logical reasoning behind it.

Oh I never said science was an illusion in my view, which I don't agree with, but science is rather just another product of our actions, and a part of our conscious. I think its the external things AND the internal things that makes us individual.We gain knowledge through our interactions with people, and this builds up our conscious. The Catholic Church says that the conscious can be educated, and its one of the few things I agree with! But I'd advise not going with gut feelings but base them on what you can reason logically to yourself.

The only way we can further ourselves is with other people.
Logged

Failed, again.
Keith
Marlon Brando
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 13



WWW
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 07:18:12 PM »

I can see where you're coming from with saying consciousness is knowing by means of self-awareness. It's an interesting concept, and I like where you went with it. When I think "conscious" I usually go to the ability to think, act, and learn from mistakes. In that sense, all things which act have consciousness but not all things that have consciousness can "know" because I do not consider behavior as knowledge.

Yeah it's always better to logically decide something rather than to go with a gut feeling, sometimes I'm just too lazy haha. I agree that the conscious can be educated, human life is a great example of that. We are aware, our knowledge grows, and we adapt to changes within our lifestyle. I guess for once I agree with the Catholic church haha.

Yeah I'm not religious myself. I respect all religions though, and usually I'm pretty eager to learn about them. There can be no growth without understanding after all.

Sorry bout the late response, been busy x.x
Logged

"Reality is merely an illusion, although a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.16 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!