Unquiet Desperation
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Author Topic: God or science or both?  (Read 8752 times)
WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
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« on: March 21, 2009, 05:11:12 PM »

But without all the particles that caused and make up the sun, it wouldn't be there. So if you don't believe in God, you should believe in science.
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Isaac
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2009, 08:54:02 PM »

So if the particles that make up the sun were made by a god, what is that god made of??
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"Imagination rules the world"
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Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 10:23:21 AM »

dark matter or the higgs boson.
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Isaac
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 06:48:48 PM »

So where was god when he made the universe?
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Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 07:04:04 PM »

And I could ask, where was everything that the universe was before it went boom in the big bang?
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Isaac
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 07:12:57 PM »

It wasn't anywhere. The universe is all that is, so how could there have been a god to create it?
How...?
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Will
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2009, 08:26:00 PM »

I felt this discussion deserved its own thread.

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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 08:40:20 PM »

Are we trying to logically prove or disprove God's existence?

oh the futility
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Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 05:43:18 PM »

Neither can be done. It requires a leap of faith on the basis of what you understand around you, and influenced by what has happened.
It wasn't anywhere. The universe is all that is, so how could there have been a god to create it?
How...?


Maybe God is the universe?
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nauseamfromrum
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 12:36:10 AM »

the only thing that exists is infinity, and thus we can never give anything true context, which means there is only subjective meaning, which means everything, including god if he's out there, is meaningless. it's like this entire universe is the distorted manifestation of the denial of meaninglessness. it's just a big convoluted mess that we are stuck in and will never understand why. it's stupid really. to me heaven if it exists is just god's way of keeping us in a stupor of happiness while he goes into his quarters at night tryin to figure it out himself before we all realize the bullshit and rebel.

what revelation would even validate our existence?  what could we possibly find out one day that would make everyone go  "oh that's why we are here!" 


and i dont even know if anything i just said is genuine, i have no true opinions.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 12:44:07 AM by adnauseamfromrum » Logged
Will
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 01:08:54 PM »

Life...it's just something to do.  Without life, there would only be...
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Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 05:55:48 PM »

1. Life is probably the greatest thing ze have.
2. Nothing could ever go "thats why we`re here", wè will probably never truelly know unless God tells us.
3. Im going to give youre main arguement some thought.
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nauseamfromrum
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 09:52:47 PM »

well, for number 2

god doesn't know why he exists either. if he does exist, he's either just as confused as us within the subset of the universe (perhaps god is really just the leading scholar on the universe, yet still nowhere near solving it), or he is the universe and can't rationally explain how he got there or if anything exists outside of him in any rational, completely loophole closing way. infinity trumps all, because the only thing that trumps infinity is infinity. the farthest we can stretch our context is the context that matters. it is the meaning of infinity that interests more than anything, as you can tell probably.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 10:04:22 PM by adnauseamfromrum » Logged
keysersose
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 10:15:43 PM »

Doesn't Occam's razor handle this quite nicely?

No need for anything else. We just are.

Keyserrrrr.
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nauseamfromrum
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 10:59:09 PM »

yep.
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Will
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 03:22:03 PM »

Here's an article I found today where four yahoos debate God and Satan.  I found it to be an interesting read. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=7170007&page=1
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Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2009, 04:43:53 PM »

I like your thinking adnauseam.

Maybe God is the embodiment of everything good?

Maybe God is infinity? I think a major problem people have is actually understanding what God is. Maybe he is not some guy up there wathcing us, but something else. Another thing poeple say is tha God is male, but whos to say he is actually male and female as one? I don`t know of a word that refers to someone like that, which gives way to people thinking that when he's refered to as "he", they misunderstand?

Some random food for thought.
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nauseamfromrum
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2009, 08:51:52 PM »

though  in this context, i think occam's razor is more of an "ignorance is bliss" kinda notion, because we don't have a concrete set of explanations that are cluttering up the solution in a way in which we can plainly see where we are adding inane extras. who is to say that there's not something beyond "we are" relevent to our existence? occam's razor relies on knowing exactly where the solution is being convoluted. so it's not fully usable here. that's where i get stuck, there's never a way to ever know where the solution has ended because the idea of infinity always trumps any true understanding, and the idea of infinity itself eludes any true understanding. even if in some unexplainable way we were to find the  "end" of the universe, we'd only ever be able to believe this on faith, because maybe it is only the "end" in our perspective. perhaps there is matter so exotic that it exists completely independent of consciousness's potential to detect it, ever. perhaps the human mind is the step that needs to be cut out to attain a sense of solution. which sucks.

i'm not trying to solve anything here, just showing that attempting to solve anything is futile--and that this futility to me is mind-bogglingly annoying. it's like there's a tension at the very outermost of our existence that can never be resolved.

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WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2009, 09:41:00 PM »

But we are, as far as I know, he only species that has free will, thought the ter, is heavily debatable. We are able to understand things that animals cannot. We are different from anything else, which gives us an advantage, but then we ,must think about what it means. Meanings. Hmm.... Perhaps meanings are subjective to humans? So what if the meanings we have are nothing to the universe? Maybe our minds are here as the carrier to these meaningless meanings? Also, if nothing has a reason then you might as well commit suicide or stop doing anything or make your great art. The fact that we carry on shows we want a purpose.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 09:46:49 PM by WA2 » Logged

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jrkulmer
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 06:24:54 PM »

Just a short comment...

dark matter or the higgs boson.

Isn't it funny how God always creeps up in the gaps in our knowledge...
"The God Of The Gaps"...
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? - Douglas Adams
WA2
Emmeline Pankhurst
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« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 06:40:35 PM »

1. People do sometimes name these particles "God particles" and I'm not serious.
2. God could be...anything perhaps? Most likely the result of our knowledge
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