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Author Topic: What is Art?  (Read 14114 times)
carter
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« on: January 23, 2008, 08:47:58 PM »

Before we talk about art and artists' place in the world, shouldn't we find out what art is?

Is it exclusive or inclusive? Can it be defined, or is it all based on the perspective of the viewer?

As I've asked elsewhere, can 'The Young and the restless' be considered art in the same way as 'Hamlet'?

Can some cheesy ad photo be compared to Van gogh's 'Sunflowers'?

Obvious examples, i know, but you get the picture.

Start throwing things now!

Carter
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 09:16:05 PM »

I've recently had very stimulating conversation where I heard the idea that, "art is the reification of creative thought."  What this means to say is that art is when an idea is had and made concrete in the world.  Now, is all reified creative thought art?  What of architecture, landscaping, democratic decisions...

?
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nell8090
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 04:49:43 AM »

to quote the debatable 'artist' andy warhol, "an artist is someone that produces things that people don't need to have but that he- for some reason- thinks it would be a good idea to give them."
i challenge warhol in stating that, this "some reason," is the internal human desire to create, self identify, and connect to the world around us and within us.
we are all programed with some form of creativity and generative tendency. an artist is such a human that harnesses this drive into something tangible. even the most abstract, conceptual pieces of artwork (visual, literary, musical, movement), contains a fraction of materialization and concreteness. and that, in my opinion, defines art and artists.

my next venture would be to ask the far-reaching question, what makes art "good?"
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 06:31:24 AM »

A graceful blend of tradition and innovation, punctured by wit, with the elevation of the base and common to elite status. 

That's what I like, anyway.
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Flying_whizzabe
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 07:38:16 PM »

I think you could define art by it being what ever you percieve it to be,
Its observeing your surroundings and questioning
what they are to you, Art is different for everyone..its a very diverse term.. It could mean anything. I feel as though I have been asking myself this question for years and everytime I try my head gets scrambled.


A man paints with his brains and not with his hands- michelangelo


If this was taken literally it would be some messy art, that makes me chuckle
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Mew
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 09:44:26 PM »

I think art is ultimately undetermined.  We all know the basic arts being dance, music, painting, sculpture, so forth and so on....but where this art is actually stemmed from in terms of a human sense, we will never know...

....and honestly, I think that's the fucking beauty of it.  I love it when something artistic happens (or hell, even when something "tragic" happens, like a monster movie: "WHERE THE HELL DID THIS THING COME FROM??!"

I love it when something happens, and we have absolutely no idea where it came from.
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carter
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2008, 11:05:08 AM »

Like you all say, the act of creation is part of it. But does the act of creation make you an artist? There must be more, but what? Peer acclaim? Intent? Somthing else?

Maybe your Michelangelo quote is part of it, Whizzabe. Art isn't the act, it's the concept behind the act. What concept is ever realised perfectly.

Dare: love your idea of real art being some sense-scrambling bolt from the blue. 'WTF? What just happened? My life is different!'. No doubt we'd all like to write, paint or compose something that has that effect on others.

Apart from a few grunts in the dark, is there any other way to truly leave our mark on the people we meet?

Carter.
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keysersose
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2008, 01:28:14 PM »

Like you all say, the act of creation is part of it. But does the act of creation make you an artist? There must be more, but what? Peer acclaim? Intent? Somthing else?

Apart from a few grunts in the dark, is there any other way to truly leave our mark on the people we meet?

Carter.

Peer acclaim? If that's all we end up doing this for, we might as well blow our heads off now. If you write to get a few grunts in the dark (how romantic you are - bet you know how to please a lady!), then how can youart have any value?

Being an artist is about balls and fire and a big FINGER to the bosses and the politicians.

Keyserrrrr.
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Mew
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2008, 06:30:08 PM »

Quote
Apart from a few grunts in the dark, is there any other way to truly leave our mark on the people we meet?

Carter.

That's quite a question, and I believe if you meet someone, and possibly strike up some sort of relationship with them....couldn't exploring another human being be considered a form of art as well?  Or drawing inspiration from that human being?  Creating possibly paintings, love songs, or even hate songs?

Quote
Being an artist is about balls and fire and a big FINGER to the bosses and the politicians.

Keyserrrrr.

Haha, this I can't help but to agree with.  I take particular interest in making people stagger back with the things I come up with, but of course, it's not the main reason why I do what I do, or write what I write.  Art is expression, and honestly, there's really no bolder way of putting it.

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carter
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 01:23:53 AM »


Peer acclaim? If that's all we end up doing this for, we might as well blow our heads off now. If you write to get a few grunts in the dark (how romantic you are - bet you know how to please a lady!), then how can youart have any value?

Being an artist is about balls and fire and a big FINGER to the bosses and the politicians.

Keyserrrrr.

You misrepresent what I said. I didn't say we should do it for peer acclaim - I merely included it in a list of reasons that people might create art.

All very well to talk of art as a big finger to The Man, but what does that achieve? Surely we have to take people with us, not sulk on the outside... but more of that on another thread.

Lastly, why you're interested in my ability - or lack thereof - to please ladies I don't know. Why do you automatically assume I'm interested in pleasing ladies? It might be guys for all you know...  Wink

Carter.

PS: What is 'youart'? Looks like a new word I'd be interested to learn about...
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moneycash
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 04:33:06 AM »

carter, it's really fuct up to flame someone about an obvious typo. 




jerk.
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moneycash
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 04:39:51 AM »

keyser, you're the man.
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 09:40:42 AM »

Art is that which provokes inspiration,reaction,repulsion or thought.
For me Art can be pretty much anything as long as it evokes Emotion or Reaction.
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nauseamfromrum
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2008, 03:18:40 AM »

art is anything
that i wish
i had thought of first.
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carter
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« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2008, 11:04:27 AM »

carter, it's really fuct up to flame someone about an obvious typo. 




jerk.

I assume this was meant to be amusing. You attack me for flaming and do so by calling me a jerk... ah sweet, sweet irony. The killer is that in fact I didn't flame Keyser... I merely didn't understand a word and asked for clarification. An interesting insight into your personality that you attack someone for wanting to learn.

But then, due to your username, it's probably that you're only interested in $$$$. So what are you doing on a poetry forum?

Love,
Carter.
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keysersose
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2008, 10:40:31 PM »

You misrepresent what I said. I didn't say we should do it for peer acclaim - I merely included it in a list of reasons that people might create art.

All very well to talk of art as a big finger to The Man, but what does that achieve? Surely we have to take people with us, not sulk on the outside... but more of that on another thread.

Lastly, why you're interested in my ability - or lack thereof - to please ladies I don't know. Why do you automatically assume I'm interested in pleasing ladies? It might be guys for all you know...  Wink

Carter.

PS: What is 'youart'? Looks like a new word I'd be interested to learn about...

Don't get your knickers in a twist, Farter. You used the phrase, so I took it further. The fact taht you're so touchy show that it's probably what you most care about. You take people with you if you want, but you'll wait forever that way. I say just do what you want and do it right, and if they've any brains they'll follow. But then you probably don't have the guts to do that. Just stay in your sheep pen.

keyser, you're the man.

Yes, I am. Not so bad yourself, Monaaaaaaay.


I assume this was meant to be amusing. You attack me for flaming and do so by calling me a jerk... ah sweet, sweet irony. The killer is that in fact I didn't flame Keyser... I merely didn't understand a word and asked for clarification. An interesting insight into your personality that you attack someone for wanting to learn.

But then, due to your username, it's probably that you're only interested in $$$$. So what are you doing on a poetry forum?

Love,
Carter.
 Kiss

Who's being a cock now? The saintly and chivalrous Moneycash leaps to my defence (wait... does that make me a damsel in distress? Poo) and you call him venal. And don't come over all coy... you were trying to say i was dumb with the 'youart' thing.

So will we get to see some of your poetry? I'd imagine not...

Keyserrrrr.
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 09:26:30 AM »

Calm Folks Please.
We shouldn't be focussing our agressions on one another.
Leave your disdain for the masses.


xxxxx
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Tiny Montgomery
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« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2008, 01:22:16 PM »

I'm on Carter's side. He's a good guy. He was only trying to clarify what he was trying to say so that the discussion could progress without misunderstandings, and instead he gets called a "cock" for his troubles. How rude.

P.S.
"Don't get your knickers in a twist, Farter. You used the phrase, so I took it further. The fact taht you're so touchy show that it's probably what you most care about."


What's "taht"? Another new word I, like Carter, would be interested to learn about??? You seem to know a lot of these, Keyserblows...ey.

 Kiss

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moneycash
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2008, 05:03:57 PM »

the standards of grammar go out the door in a fit of passion, and we should all be well aware of this fact.  we should also all be well aware of the fact that carter is a putrid ninny who finds it in himself to make ample critique of those around him, but somehow always manages to land on both sides of the fence.  take a position and make it yours, carter.  you can't please everyone.  soon enough you'll be recognizing me as an anti-capitalist and appreciating the facetious irony in my handle.  no?
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mark np
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2008, 10:00:12 PM »

This has gone on far too long.  Assume this as the precedent setting post as to acceptable debate on these boards. 

There shall be no personal attacks.  We encourage your freedom to attack ideas (including poetry) with as much vehemence as you find necessary, but the line is drawn when negative portrayals of personalities and persons are drawn into the discussion.

In light of the conversations in other threads, this argument seems rather silly and unfounded.  Kindly remove your heads from your asses. 

Bolshevik, your level-headed address to these brainless counter-protesters was a welcome breath of fresh air in a tense situation.  Good work.
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moneycash
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2008, 10:39:54 PM »

Alright, boss.  sounds fair enough. 

sorry, carter.   Roll Eyes
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carter
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2008, 01:56:17 PM »

Yeah, white flag from me too. No hard feelings, we're both obviously passionate about our writing, art and views and that's the way it should be.

My hand is extended to Moneycash and Keyser in fraternal affection, as it is to Bolshevik Dandy. Good call on telling us we have other better targets. Smiley

OK, back to the topic. Do we go our own way, or do we do our best to take others with us? I know that in the former we can act as an example (as many have done in the past), but I can't help thinking that for art to have any value it can't exist in a vacuum. To use a rather tired example, if a tree falls in the forest with no-one there to witness does it make a sound? Is art practised in isolation at all useful?

Carter.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 02:00:14 PM by carter » Logged

Carter 4 Maxxie Oliver
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2008, 02:12:18 PM »

Personally I don't want thanks for this.
I just want us,  the informed , to get along so we may focus our collective energies on the creatie processes



xxx


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Ploe
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2008, 05:41:50 PM »

Art is the act of someone defining the world they live in. It's everything they take in from this cruel and wonderful life, thrown into a proles confused gulliver, and then output once more onto page, canvas, soundwave or another medium.
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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2008, 12:10:27 AM »

art can be anything
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